Beyond Unity - Fighter's ZPM (Zero Point Module) failed replication by Itsu

Itsu posted this 07 November 2022

Hello all,

i opened this thread to discuss my replication of Fighter's ZPE (Zero Point Module).

I already opened a similar thread on OUR.com (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4374.msg101654#msg101654 ), but will transfer some data from there to here.

Initially i understood that the below diagram was correct and complete, but it turns out its not.
There is a ground connection somewhere, but i am not sure where it is exactly, hopefully someone can tell me.
The MOSFET is shown wrong as the Drain and Source should be swapped, which was corrected later in Fighter his thread so therefor the mentioning in red.

I have build up a similar circuit and the data is shown here:
(Be aware that the induction measurement was done at 10kHz, but due to the influence of the metglas core it can be (and is) completly different on other frequencies, see my thread on OUR.com for a VNA scan of the coil/core)

I am using a 12V battery for now as my PS (minus NOT grounded) was acting weird due to all the pulses coming back from the ZPE device.
Up till now no special effects or resonance in a 0 to 5MHz range are seen with this setup, but as said the grounding may be the problem here.

Itsu

zpm

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Fighter posted this 09 November 2022 - Last Edited 09 November 2022

Quoting:YoElMiCrO

This current is truly high and its time is extremely small.
In this way the circuit that monitors the current when having
a much longer slow time than Ton's is incapable of
to measure it and only average the current to the value it shows you.

Hi Yoel,

That high current consumption having extremely small time would still be present when using a big capacitor in paralel with the DC source's output ?

In this following test I placed a big capacitor and a diode on DC source's output, wouldn't this capacitor smooth the consumption and avoid that high current with small time consumption ?

Because at some point I did this test:

Just asking, you know your explanations and insights are always welcome, thanks ! ☺️

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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YoElMiCrO posted this 09 November 2022

Hello everyone.

@ Fighter.

It is more complex than what has been said, but it is not inexplicable.
In the shortest possible time
I will try to make myself understand better, I am not good at explaining.
This image explains why
the tension rises in the terminals of the power supply.

Thank you.

YoElMiCrO.

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Fighter posted this 10 November 2022

I just realized in the ZPM thread in the old aboveunity site I didn't added the wattmeter's specs.

I have them in our secondary forum in the ZPM thread in Romanian language in 16 June 2019 when I was exchanging information with Cd_Sharp about the current stage of the ZPM development:

So I'm adding them here for later references:

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 10 November 2022

Quoting:YoElMiCrO

Hello everyone.

@ Fighter.

It is more complex than what has been said, but it is not inexplicable.
In the shortest possible time
I will try to make myself understand better, I am not good at explaining.
This image explains why
the tension rises in the terminals of the power supply.

Thank you.

YoElMiCrO.

Thanks YoElMiCrO,

nice thought, it says "No Back Power" next to the diode, so this diode would prevent any power to return to the DC source?

That also might prevent any disturbance inside the DC source, so would be nice to try.

Itsu

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Itsu posted this 10 November 2022

Replying To: Fighter

Fighter,

thanks for the info on the Watt Meter, but should it not also mention it is a DC watt meter only?

I read about the 0.001 Ohm csr which will surely has some inductive reactance added when running at 604kHz

Not sure how it will be influenced by the AC or pulsed DC signal of the ZPM.

Just a tought.

Itsu

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Itsu posted this 10 November 2022

All,

i was running the ZPM yesterday from the Manson SPS9400 PS only (no external filtering) after some tidying up of the circuit (short wires, thick earth lead etc.) to show you the resonance point (62kHz) i had seen earlier with this PS.

But to my surprise, no resonance was seen over a 0 to 5MHz range similar as when running from the battery.

So it might be that the resonance is dependent of some internal wiring length / routing, so i have to return to a more sloppy environment to again try to catch the resonance, sorry about that.

Regards Itsu

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Fighter posted this 10 November 2022

Replying To: Itsu

Hi Itsu,

But to my surprise, no resonance was seen over a 0 to 5MHz range similar as when running from the battery.

That's very strange indeed, I'd wish to have that replica on my testing table to see what's going on with it...

should it not also mention it is a DC watt meter only?

Not really, it's a pulsed DC wattmeter, there in the specs it says "Current: 0-100A Intermittent" and "100 A peak".

It can be used for drones brushless motors and it's doing a good job, it reflects very well the consumption specified in the motors specs.

Something off topic but just for fun, this is just one of the FPV drones I've built and flew some years ago 🙂

Now about brushless motors: "Brushless DC motors are similar to AC synchronous motors. The major difference is that synchronous motors develop a sinusoidal back EMF, as compared to a rectangular, or trapezoidal, back EMF for brushless DC motors. Both have stator created rotating magnetic fields producing torque in a magnetic rotor."

So just as ZPM, these motors are using pulsed DC and are sending back to the source BEMF and the wattmeter can handle these pulses and pulsed consumption.

Notice the phrase: "Acts like a wire so it doesn't affect model's performance... Uses DSP to increase ADC resolution and different measurement amplifiers to increase noise immunity. Powerful, 8MIPS micro-controller."

All these would not be necessary for plain DC consumption.

And I can't find this info anywhere but considering all these above I think the resistor inside is non-inductive, at least it should be considering the environment the wattmeter is designed to work in.

These are the reasons I bought 3 of them for using in my experiments when necessary.

Here is a photo of two of them when I worked on Bearden's MEG replication (and experiments with modified MEG versions like you can see in this photo), a device behaving like ZPM (pulsed consumption and pulses sent back to the DC source):

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Vidura posted this 10 November 2022

Hey Friends, in my attempts to replicate I had the same issue, O failed to get resonance at high frequencies. Regarding the measurements personally I don't trust in any device that have electronic components inside, when working in RF range. Not even the scope, I ve seen too many odd things. The best option in my opinion are the wirewound pointer meters, not that they are more accurate, but they are immune for interference mostly. And if we had OU with a significant cop, there is no need for measurement down to three digits behind the dot. Regards

Vidura

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Fighter posted this 10 November 2022

Hi Vidura,

I don't remember well, did you used a floating (no gounding) circuit ?

About measurement, you mean analog meters ? I agree they are more immune to interferences, the reason I hesitate to use them is the fact that they display just some kind of average and I'm not sure how correct is that when having high-frequency pulses with atypical waveforms. Maybe I should try them in future experiments, why not ?

Yes, I think in case of significant COP they should reflect the situation well. Of course the best proof of OU is an self-looped and self-running device, that's the ideal situation where measurements are not really necessary anymore ☺️

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 10 November 2022

Replying To: Fighter

Fighter,

That's very strange indeed, I'd wish to have that replica on my testing table to see what's going on with it...

Well, when my testing is over without any positive results, that can be arranged, i keep that in mind.

Not really, it's a pulsed DC wattmeter, there in the specs it says "Current: 0-100A Intermittent" and "100 A peak".

It can be used for drones brushless motors and it's doing a good job, it reflects very well the consumption specified in the motors specs.

Yes i can see its being advertized as RC vehicles battery monitoring, but it also states something like:

Digital LCD Display Blue DC 60V 100A Balance Voltage Battery Power Analyzer Watt Meter Checker Balancer Charger RC Tools

Mind the "DC" in it, therefor my mentioning it, but i have no experience with them.

Anyway, an impressive build you have there with that drone, and it seems to behave very well / stable, thanks for info, good job 👍

Did you had any positive result with your MEG? (you could PM me about that if you want).

Regards Itsu

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