Beyond Unity - Fighter's ZPM (Zero Point Module) failed replication by Itsu

Itsu posted this 07 November 2022

Hello all,

i opened this thread to discuss my replication of Fighter's ZPE (Zero Point Module).

I already opened a similar thread on OUR.com (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4374.msg101654#msg101654 ), but will transfer some data from there to here.

Initially i understood that the below diagram was correct and complete, but it turns out its not.
There is a ground connection somewhere, but i am not sure where it is exactly, hopefully someone can tell me.
The MOSFET is shown wrong as the Drain and Source should be swapped, which was corrected later in Fighter his thread so therefor the mentioning in red.

I have build up a similar circuit and the data is shown here:
(Be aware that the induction measurement was done at 10kHz, but due to the influence of the metglas core it can be (and is) completly different on other frequencies, see my thread on OUR.com for a VNA scan of the coil/core)

I am using a 12V battery for now as my PS (minus NOT grounded) was acting weird due to all the pulses coming back from the ZPE device.
Up till now no special effects or resonance in a 0 to 5MHz range are seen with this setup, but as said the grounding may be the problem here.

Itsu

zpm

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Itsu posted this 20 November 2022 - Last Edited 20 November 2022

Quoting:Fighter

"been there, done that, got the T-shirt", I like that expression ! 😄

You mean the SG (function/signal generator) ? No, it's not, its power cable doesn't have 3 wires inside, just 2 wires so the grounding wire is not present.

And the MOSFET driver (the black box) is powered directly from the DC source which is grounded, so I guess we can consider the MOSFET driver as being grounded.

Fighter

Thanks Fighter,

Yes i mean the SG (function/signal generator), so its wired the same as mine (no ground), but my MOSFET/driver is isolated from that FG /SG.

What about the MOSFET driver (the black box), you say its powered by the DC source which is grounded.

But is this driver running on 25V also, or is there some regulator inbetween and possible isolated somehow?

Anyway, i have rewound my smaller coil, its now the same direction as the bigger coil, so i had to connect the inner wire of one coil to the outer wire of the other to have the both North poles on the same side.

But first tests shows the same results as before, some slight resonance points around 181kHz and 432kHz, but the input current stays in line with the light coming from the 3x 12V / 5W bulbs, no current dip.

You mention your MOSFET is getting hot quickly, so perhaps now concentrate on that.

Do you have a diagram on how your black box looks like inside?

Did any of the other replicators reported heating up the MOSFET?

Thanks, Itsu

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Fighter posted this 20 November 2022

Quoting:Itsu

Anyway, i have rewound my smaller coil, its now the same direction as the bigger coil, so i had to connect the inner wire of one coil to the outer wire of the other to have the both North poles on the same side.

But first tests shows the same results as before, some slight resonance points around 181kHz and 432kHz, but the input current stays in line with the light coming from the 3x 12V / 5W bulbs, no current dip.

If with the coils fixed you still don't see the input decrease I really don't know what else I can help with because I don't know what the cause is. Hopefully we can find the cause in the circuitry differences...

What about the MOSFET driver (the black box), you say its powered by the DC source which is grounded.

But is this driver running on 25V also, or is there some regulator inbetween and possible isolated somehow?

This is how the connections look like inside the MOSFET driver (the black box), I'm using just one channel for ZPM so these are the connections of that channel:

The other unused channel's connections are similar to the channel shown in the image above.

The LEDs on the front panel and the fans of the cooling system are powered separately by a small 12V power supply. That circuit is completely separated and turned on by the switches on black box's panel as these switches have double contacts in parallel (separated electrically) wich turn on/off at the same time. So that separated circuit have no electrical connections to the main circuitry:

You can find more details about that separated circuit for LEDs and cooling system in the ZPM thread here:

https://www.aboveunity.com/thread/romanian-zpm-zero-point-module/?order=all#comment-88f7d084-db14-4735-aa66-aac300037826

But as I said this circuit have no relevance as it have no electrical connection to the main circuitry.

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 20 November 2022

Thanks Fighter,

you were mentioning earlier MOSFET driver (like a TC4420), but i understand now you have no MOSFET driver in your circuit.

The FG/SG is directly driving the MOSFET (by the way, the MOSFET is drawn wrongly in your drawing, but i am sure you know this).

So the MOSFET is not isolated nor driven by a driver.

I will setup a similar way by removing my isolated MOSFET driver board and also drive the MOSFET directly from the SG/FG.

Thanks, Itsu

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Vidura posted this 20 November 2022

Hi, if I remember correctly Fighter also could make it work with the switching module, it is completely isolated with optocoupler and galvanically separate driver power supply. I believe the issue is in the core, there are many different types of metglass, and the nonlinearity of permeability is essential for parametric excitation. It could also be due to the coils, relationship lenght-inductance.

Vidura

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Fighter posted this 20 November 2022

you were mentioning earlier MOSFET driver (like a TC4420), but i understand now you have no MOSFET driver in your circuit.

That is correct. I called the entire black box "MOSFET driver" just for convenience.

by the way, the MOSFET is drawn wrongly in your drawing, but i am sure you know this

Yes, just ignore that, I used an old image, the mistake was corrected at some point later.

if I remember correctly Fighter also could make it work with the switching module, it is completely isolated with optocoupler and galvanically separate driver power supply

You remember very well, Vidura, I used the PowerTool designed and built by you. And it's completely isolated and the ZPM was running fine with it.

More info about Vidura's PowerTool can be found here:

https://www.aboveunity.com/thread/switching-tool-users-guide/

And more info about the test can be found here:

https://www.aboveunity.com/thread/romanian-zpm-zero-point-module-enhancements-stage/?order=all#comment-e6214e64-b171-40ca-86b4-aae60130f58d

And there is also a video with the experiment:

I believe the issue is in the core, there are many different types of metglass, and the nonlinearity of permeability is essential for parametric excitation

It's a possibility, unfortunately I have no method to make a distinction between Metglas cores wich work with ZPM and cores which don't work with ZPM.

The core I used for ZPM prototype is a Hitachi Metals core, the details about it are here:

https://www.aboveunity.com/thread/romanian-zpm-zero-point-module/?order=all#comment-68d2066a-bffa-4106-9204-aa7100f602d5

And the core I used for the ZPM replica is a UAML India core, the details about it are here:

https://www.aboveunity.com/thread/romanian-zpm-zero-point-module-enhancements-stage/?order=all#comment-d100b5a9-5d83-4f16-9cca-ab5300cb415b

Itsu, could you provide more details about the source and characteristics of your Metglas core ? Could be useful to make an idea about it.

Also, if it's possible, could you take a screesnhot of the oscilloscope in a test when it shows the ZPM-specific waveform pattern ? I would like to compare it with the waveforms and readings (especially Vpp) shown by my ZPM prototype and ZPM replica, maybe it's something there which could give us an idea why the input decrease doesn't occur in your tests.

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 21 November 2022

Fighter,

Thanks for the info on the isolated switching board from Vidura, looking nice 👍

I have removed my isolating switching board, and put in an IRFP260N MOSFET directly on the SG/FG, see picture.
The circuit still behaves as normal here, so no dipping current when in resonance and the MOSFET get somewhat warm (60 degrees C) without heatsink.

the METGLAS core i bought it some years ago on Alibaba, but there is not much details to be found now. Could be poor quality.

Screenshot taken below is from input voltage (yellow) and input current (green) when in some kind of resonance at 213kHz:

I can send you my core with coils as it is now, so if interested, please PM me with your address.

Regards Itsu

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Fighter posted this 21 November 2022

Quoting:Itsu

Thanks for the info on the isolated switching board from Vidura, looking nice 👍

No problem, I told you we have very advanced members in physics and electronics in our team here ☺️

the METGLAS core i bought it some years ago on Alibaba, but there is not much details to be found now. Could be poor quality.

Were there any labels on it where the coils are placed right now ? Something like this ?

'Cause based on those labels we can identify the manufacturer and eventually its specs so we can compare them.

If you intend to work in the future on replicating Tom Bearden's MEG maybe would be a good idea to get an original Hitachi Metals AMCC-200, I see it's kind of cheap now and the shipping is free:

https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hitachi-Metals/AMCC0200?qs=0lSvoLzn4L%252BNEYf2KKv60Q%3D%3D

It's 97 Euros now, it was 135 Euros in 2015 when I bought 2 of them for 300 Euros (30 Euros shipping).

Or maybe one UMCCC-200, I suppose that's even cheaper.

I don't know, just an idea. I also intend to try again a MEG replication (as I told you in the meanwhile I got more data and details I didn't had at that time) when I'll have time again for experiments and I intend to use the Hitachi core for that.

I can send you my core with coils as it is now, so if interested, please PM me with your address.

Unfortunately as I said before I have no time for experiments right now and finding the issues would require time and investigation. And I can't get your Metglas core and then tell you to wait until there will be time, it would be a very awkward situation. Sorry, can't do that.

Maybe the situation will change but can't estimate when, for now all I can do is to try to help this way and provide more details/clarifications when needed.

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 21 November 2022

Fighter,

No, there are no stamped labels on the cores, just some green stripes across the gap at one side indicating how they should be put together.
The company who made it was: Anhui Lizhi Magnetic Material Co., Ltd in China.

Yes, i guess i will buy an AMCC 200 or 320 from mouser, because those are the ones used on the Bearden and Naudin setups.

I understand about your lack of time, life has to be priority one, hobby or passion second.

Itsu

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YoElMiCrO posted this 22 November 2022

Hello everyone.

@ Itzu.

I tell you from my point of view what happens in ZPM of Fighter.

Let me explain...
The first thing that has to happen is that the core is deeply saturated,
When two magnetic fields are faced and the mutual coupling is
less than 1 as in this case, what happens is that the magnetic permeability falls and
Lenz's law as we know it does not appear.
This current being so high, in the case of Figther the mosfet use
is the IRFP250 which has an Rds(on) of 85mOhms and the supply voltage
of 25Vdc.

The Ton time will be that necessary for the two magnetic sections of the core to be
are in magnetic permeability of the vacuum and that depends on H, this
between 1.3 to 3 Hc and it is clear that it depends on the core material.
Now...
The duty cycle that Fighter used is 25%, let's calculate the worst case...
The maximum current that can circulate through the core will be...
ip=edc/(rcu + rds (on)).
The instantaneous power Pp=Edc*Ip will be dissipated in the Sw and copper of the transformer.
The power delivered as an average for the supply source...

Pp*(Ton/T).
But as you will see during the time of Ton the power that comes out of the source of
supply is very large and has to dissipate partly in the Sw.
That's why it has to warm up as Fighter says.
Also that's why the source capacitor is, because it has to support
tremendous variation of current.
Moreover due to this same high current the cables leaving the source
up to ZPM behave as inductors and it will be the electric field who
during the Toff cycle will feed the source, the ZPM windings will feed
to the load that is parallel to them making use of the electric field that
was disturbed during the Ton cycle
I don't know if I make myself understood.
I have the entire ZPM mathematical model of Fighter developed,
It has many anomalies, that's why I'm still studying it.

Thanks you.

YoElMiCrO.

Thank you.

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Fighter posted this 23 November 2022

Hi Yoel,

Yes I can understand your description.

I just need to read it multiple times so I can imagine/simulate the entire process in my mind.

In this simultation I make in my mind multiple points of interest are the parts which describe how ZPM's behavior put stress in some of the components of the circuit because there are potential enhancements. It's obvious a part of ZPM's output is lost in the MOSFET extreme heat when ZPM is sending power back to the DC source, that's why the "black box" needed significant active cooling. Also from your description seems the DC source's internal capacitor is under stress too.

What's interesting is a model of how the energy is gathered from the zero-point/vacuum field and how that energy is used in the entire process, that's what I try to simulate in my mind.

Thank you for the description of the entire process, much appreciated !

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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