Romanian ZPM (Zero Point Module)

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Fighter posted this 07 February 2023

This is the imported thread (from the old aboveunity site) about my ZPM:

For references I will keep the original posting date for every imported post.

Note: This thread is public, everyone can see it, even the visitors which are not members here.

For the posts made by former aboveunity members which are not members on our site I'll use a member placeholder named UndisclosedMember.

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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UndisclosedMember posted this 23 June 2019

Hi Fighter,

I have a possible suggestion for the premature death of your capacitor.

At switch mode PSUs the storage capacitors need to be specified for severe (1) pulsating currents - else they tend to explode. Standard electrolytic capacitors do not have sophisticated internal connections. So if pulsed with high repetetive currents they experience temperature rise. I experienced it live once when a SMPS exploded 8 capacitors one by one up to burning the machine it was supposed to feed.

Additionally SMPS require capacitors with (2) low inductivity of the leads (low ESR) in order to get the pulsating currents to the full surface of thecapacitor plates. Many electrolytic caps are specified for 50/60Hz only.

I suppose your huge capacitor was not specified for (1) nor (2). So this capacitor might be part of the tank circuit but not with full specified capacity  but some intermediate parasitic R/L/C value.

Additionally the output capacitor inside your PSU might be as well part of the tank circuit. At such conditions the PSU is not able to measure currents reliably.

You might try using a diode in series to your 24V lead (coming from PSU) in order to eliminate backlash to your PSU. 

 

-----------------------------

Your input configuration:

I feel that your setup operates intensively with the power supply as part of the oscillations.

Please be aware that a FET has an intrinsic, reverse and parasitic diode (not very fast) - see schematic symbol .

  • In ON state the power will flow from plus to GND - as intended.
  • IN OFF state the power might flow reverse through the parasitic diode. 

YoElMiCrO  suggested the insertion of an additional diode in order to overcome this implication.

---------------------

It would be very interesting if you could check if the sweet spot (frequency) of your setup depends on the value or make of this huge capacitor.

-------------------------

Fighter, you should not be disappointed. :-)

Unfortunately you tapped into several parasitic properties of electronic components. In fact EVERY component has R/L/C properties or some parasitic diodes .... but usually they do not matter if used in proved standard circuits. High frequency is one ingredient that makes them matter. That's life! Sometimes learning goes the hard way. But you will get support in this forum. Important is - you DO learn.

So, before you dive into opto couplers please re-check the operation of your setup:

  1. with those two diodes added (see above)
  2. Sweet spot (resonance) without and with different makes or values of capacitors (replacing that high 10000µF cap.)

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Vidura posted this 23 June 2019

Hey Fighter,

As you can see the signal on the gate is not the expected square wave at 50%Dty. This happens because the drive capabilities of the SG, are not sufficient at high frequencies. But this does not mean that the device don't work of course. In order for not flooding your thread with information about switching(there are some specific threads on this topic, where we can discuss different switching techniques ) I will come to the point:  to answer the question about the accuracy of the input measurements: Yes there is a possibility that the digital meters give erroneous readings. As it seems the device is capable to light two 35W bulbs to a considerable brightness we can ignore the few watts that might come from the SG. The main concern at the moment I guess is to verify if the readings on the input are accurate, I suggest two methods: first to put a current sensing resistor on the input and use the scope to measure the current and voltage from the  power supply. It should be immune to RF interference. second method: add a low pass filter between the power supply and the circuit like this: 

the component values are not critical , two inductors of a few mH a big electrolytic cap, and another  cap about 100nF

then try if there is a change in the readings of the displays.

I hope this helps .

VIDURA.

Vidura

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UndisclosedMember posted this 23 June 2019

My Friends,

I need to say, the term: Parasitic, is a term used when one gets something that is not wanted, E.G: Stray Signals.

 

Do not forget, this is what we want! It is important that our equipment, specifically Partnered Output Coils, Bucking Coils, "Generate" a Voltage and therefore Current. Remember: I = V / R

Importantly, Parasitic for some, is the complete opposite for others!

I like the term Bus-Pumping, as this is quite literally what we are doing! Again, for us, this is not a Parasitic Process, this is quite literally: Electromagnetic Induction, the process we are encouraging!

As an example, look at the Parasitic Signals in this Video:

 

I hope this helps some!

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UndisclosedMember posted this 24 June 2019

I would suggest a PI filter which is the same as Vidura's but with a cap in front of the inductors also. good advice vidura.

Marathonman

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Vasile posted this 24 June 2019

As I also had a Metglas core available (see Picture 1), I tryed your experiment and it did not work for me. Of course, it is not exactly like yours because of mainly two factors: size of core and amount/ratio of windings. I truly believe you stumbled upon something interesting. I have a little laboratory myself, as I like to study different natural phenomena (not only electric or magnetic).  Of course the power source and signal generator are present (see Picture 2). I am also from Romania and I would like to test the core myself. You can have my general info, name, phone, adress, etc. I don't care. You can send thru a courier service( FanCourier preferably as they are more serious and I would pay both ways, to me and back to you). Or you can come yourself to my place and test it. I have to admit I have a different aproach in my experiments, meaning they are not exactly like yours as I kind of stay away from high frequency high power, but when I read thru it I realized I hadn't seen something this close to a very energy efficient circuit. That' s why I want to test it, maybe it helps you. I wait for your reply.

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Fighter posted this 24 June 2019

Hi JohnStone,

At switch mode PSUs the storage capacitors need to be specified for severe (1) pulsating currents - else they tend to explode. Standard electrolytic capacitors do not have sophisticated internal connections. So if pulsed with high repetetive currents they experience temperature rise. I experienced it live once when a SMPS exploded 8 capacitors one by one up to burning the machine it was supposed to feed.

Additionally SMPS require capacitors with (2) low inductivity of the leads (low ESR) in order to get the pulsating currents to the full surface of thecapacitor plates. Many electrolytic caps are specified for 50/60Hz only.

I suppose your huge capacitor was not specified for (1) nor (2). So this capacitor might be part of the tank circuit but not with full specified capacity  but some intermediate parasitic R/L/C value.

What kind of capacitors are specified for pulsating currents and also low ESR ? Can you give me a hint about a type or an manufacturer producing them ? How expensive are they comparing to what we have in common stores ?

You might try using a diode in series to your 24V lead (coming from PSU) in order to eliminate backlash to your PSU. 

The fastest diodes I have now in stock are some Schottky diodes, I suppose I actually need some ultra-fast diode to be able to respond to the frequency ranges I'm using (hundreds of KHz).

Your input configuration:

I feel that your setup operates intensively with the power supply as part of the oscillations.

Please be aware that a FET has an intrinsic, reverse and parasitic diode (not very fast) - see schematic symbol .

  • In ON state the power will flow from plus to GND - as intended.
  • IN OFF state the power might flow reverse through the parasitic diode. 

YoElMiCrO  suggested the insertion of an additional diode in order to overcome this implication.

---------------------

It would be very interesting if you could check if the sweet spot (frequency) of your setup depends on the value or make of this huge capacitor.

-------------------------

I could also try with diode on drain of the MOSFET but this will need more time (modifying the current MOSFET driver) and for this also I need to buy ultra-fast diodes because I don't have any in stock right now. I'll see what I can do depending on the available time. About the capacitor(s) in DC source, I would't make any changes in there just for testing, sorry but I think you understand... 🙂

Fighter, you should not be disappointed. :-)

Unfortunately you tapped into several parasitic properties of electronic components. In fact EVERY component has R/L/C properties or some parasitic diodes .... but usually they do not matter if used in proved standard circuits. High frequency is one ingredient that makes them matter. That's life! Sometimes learning goes the hard way. But you will get support in this forum. Important is - you DO learn.

Actually I'm very dissapointed. That DC source is a lab source, should not care about spikes, pulses or frequencies, its readings should be accurate no matter what. Also that wattmeter being affected in the same way ? I used it to double-check the source's readings. And also those MOSFETS which seem to not be able to handle hundreds of KHz and also sending back to source spikes ? Seems our current electronics available in store are very limited about high-frequencies. What I don't get it is how that current limiter on the DC source is affected also ? I mean that is a physical knob not some software thing. Displaying bad readings I kind of understand. But how is that physical current limited being fooled so the source provide let's ampers while that limiter is set to a few miliampers ? I have some doubts about that current limiter being also affected. I'll figure it out in one way or another.

Thanks for the help and advice ! 🙂

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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Fighter posted this 24 June 2019

Hi Vidura,

The main concern at the moment I guess is to verify if the readings on the input are accurate, I suggest two methods: first to put a current sensing resistor on the input and use the scope to measure the current and voltage from the  power supply. It should be immune to RF interference. second method: add a low pass filter between the power supply and the circuit

The first thing I will try is with a ultra-fast diode put on the output of the source as JohnStone suggested, then I would try with the same type of diode on MOSFET drain as YoElMiCrO suggested. About measuring input power I would try the current sensing resistor, I don't have something useful right now but I'll figure it out about this method.

Thanks for the help and advice ! 🙂

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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Fighter posted this 24 June 2019

Hi Marathonman,

I would suggest a PI filter which is the same as Vidura's but with a cap in front of the inductors also. good advice vidura.

Yeah, I would need to try multiple ways, I will start with the simpler way - ultra-fast diode on DC-source's output, maybe that (hopefully) resolves the issue... 🙂 If not I'm gonna work on the filter.

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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Fighter posted this 24 June 2019

Hi Vasile,

As I also had a Metglas core available (see Picture 1), I tryed your experiment and it did not work for me. Of course, it is not exactly like yours because of mainly two factors: size of core and amount/ratio of windings. I truly believe you stumbled upon something interesting. I have a little laboratory myself, as I like to study different natural phenomena (not only electric or magnetic).  Of course the power source and signal generator are present (see Picture 2). I am also from Romania and I would like to test the core myself. You can have my general info, name, phone, adress, etc. I don't care. You can send thru a courier service( FanCourier preferably as they are more serious and I would pay both ways, to me and back to you). Or you can come yourself to my place and test it. I have to admit I have a different aproach in my experiments, meaning they are not exactly like yours as I kind of stay away from high frequency high power, but when I read thru it I realized I hadn't seen something this close to a very energy efficient circuit. That' s why I want to test it, maybe it helps you. I wait for your reply.

I doubt the core size is important in replicating ZPM but I think you should try with more turns, the magnetic field produced by your smaller coil I don't think it's significant. And (at least for now) try with 1/2 turns ratio I'm currently using. You may use different wire so there will be enough space for let's say 100/200 turns on your core. I will assist you in any way I can in replicating ZPM. About mine, sorry but I need it to figure out ways to get accurate readings on input, I need it for experiments. But I had a discussion with Cd_Sharp and he wants to try a replication, I have a second brand-new identical core and I'm gonna meet Cd_Sharp when he finishes the coil supports he's working on and I'll give him the core, would be nice to (hopefully) have a second device in tests. Please let me know how your device works with the new coils and ask me anything, I would gladly answer to your questions. Would be nice to have a third device in tests 🙂 Thanks !

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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Fighter posted this 24 June 2019

Hi guys,

Short question, I have two shunt resistors like this, do you think I can use them for measuring current on input and output ?

https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN-current-shunt-resistor-Ampere/dp/B00GH8ZRUW

Thanks,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
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